演講MP3+雙語文稿:被對方批評的時候，我們該怎么做？

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【演講者及介紹】Bob Langert

鮑勃·蘭格特公司可持續(xù)發(fā)展專家，他是企業(yè)可持續(xù)發(fā)展的顧問、撰稿人和演講者，他向我們展示了企業(yè)如何成功地駕馭和管理當(dāng)今有爭議的社會問題，如何成為更好的企業(yè)公民，如何使企業(yè)更強(qiáng)大、更相關(guān)、更盈利。

【演講主題】與最嚴(yán)厲的批評者合作的商業(yè)案例

【中英文字幕】

翻譯者Jiasi Hao 校對者 psjmz mz

00:14

Who remembers this infamous Styrofoamcontainer?

誰還記得“臭名遠(yuǎn)揚(yáng)”的泡沫塑料餐盒？

00:18

(Applause)

（掌聲）

00:21

Well, it sure changed me, it changed mycompany, and it started a revelatory journey about how adversaries can be yourbest allies. You know, back in the late '80s, this Big Mac clamshell was thesymbol of a garbage crisis. People were really angry. For example, thousands ofstudents, young students around the globe were sending letters, blamingMcDonald's, because we were using millions of these at that time. Now, no oneat McDonald's knew anything about environmentally friendly packaging, includingme. The last 10 years, I was in charge of logistics and truck drivers. Then outof nowhere, my boss comes to me and says, "Hey, we want you to save thisclamshell for the company and lead the effort to reduce waste withinMcDonald's." I looked at him and I asked him, "What ispolystyrene?" But it all sounded intriguing to me because it brought meback to my roots.

這顯然改變了我，改變了我公司，也開啟了一場關(guān)于“競爭對手可以成為你最佳同盟”的啟發(fā)性旅程。要知道，在80年代后期，這個巨無霸翻蓋式餐盒是垃圾危機(jī)的象征。人們?yōu)榇藰O其不滿。比如，全球數(shù)千名年輕的學(xué)生們都寄出了譴責(zé)麥當(dāng)勞的信件，因為那時我們正在使用上百萬只這樣的餐盒。麥當(dāng)勞沒有一個人熟悉環(huán)境友好的包裝，包括我。在10年前，我主管物流和卡車司機(jī)。之后不知怎么的，老板找到了我，說：“嘿，我們想要你為公司節(jié)省翻蓋餐盒方面的開支，帶頭減少麥當(dāng)勞內(nèi)部的浪費(fèi)?！蔽铱粗瑔柕溃骸芭菽芰鲜鞘裁?？”但對我來說，這些聽起來非常有趣，因為這把我?guī)Щ亓死媳拘小?/p>

01:26

You see, I grew up in the late '60s, early'70s, in a time of huge social upheaval in the United States. And I was reallyin tune with the protests, the sit-ins, the anti-Vietnam sentiment, and Ireally felt there was a need to question authority. But as I went intouniversity, I realized that I'm not going to make a living doing this. And thatwhole movement had subsided, and my activist spirit went dormant. And I neededto make a living, so I got involved in the business world. So, now thesestudents against pollution, who were sending those protest letters toMcDonald's, they reminded me of myself 20 years ago. They're questioningauthority. But now, I'm the man.

我在60年代末70年代初，美國社會極為動蕩的時期下長大。我與抗議、靜坐、反越戰(zhàn)情緒步調(diào)一致，真的覺得有必要質(zhì)疑權(quán)威。但是當(dāng)我進(jìn)入了大學(xué)，我意識到我將不會以此為生；再加上整個反抗運(yùn)動的逐漸消退，我的活動家精神隨之蟄伏。我還要生存，所以我進(jìn)入了商業(yè)世界。現(xiàn)在那些學(xué)生反對污染，給麥當(dāng)勞寄出了無數(shù)抗議信，他們使我想起了20年前的自己。他們正在質(zhì)疑權(quán)威。但現(xiàn)在，我成了那個權(quán)威人士。

02:15

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

02:17

I'm the corporate suit. I'm the onerepresenting authority. And this new thing was emerging called corporate socialresponsibility, later corporate sustainability, and now I had a chance to makea difference. So the beginning of this journey started when McDonald's agreedto a partnership with the Environmental Defense Fund. They were an NGO that wasfounded with the principle of "sue the bastards." So I'm thinking,what are they thinking about me and my team?

我是公司的門面，我是那個代表權(quán)威的人。有個新事物正在浮現(xiàn)，叫做企業(yè)社會責(zé)任，即后來的企業(yè)可持續(xù)性。現(xiàn)在，我手握一個改變的機(jī)會。這段旅程始于麥當(dāng)勞同意與美國環(huán)保協(xié)會（EDF）形成合作伙伴關(guān)系。它們是非政府組織，以“告那些混蛋”為原則成立的組織。所以我在思考：他們怎么想我和我的團(tuán)隊？

02:53

When I first met Richard Denison, he's thesenior scientist for EDF, I was very apprehensive. I thought he's atree-hugger, and I'm thinking he thinks all I care about is the money. So wewanted the EDF team to give us real-world solutions. So we did the logicalthing. We had them flip burgers in our restaurants. So you have to imagineRichard, who, by the way, is a PhD in physics, and there he is, he's trying todress a quarter-pounder, and you're supposed to have two squirts of ketchup,one mustard, three pickles and an onion, go on to the next one, you've got tobe so fast. And you know what? He couldn't get it right all day long. And hewas frustrated. And I was so impressed, because he was trying to understand ourbusiness.

當(dāng)我第一次見到EDF的高級科學(xué)家理查德·丹尼森時，我非常擔(dān)憂，因為我以為他是環(huán)保極端人士，他會覺得我只在意錢。所以我們想要讓 EDF 團(tuán)隊給我們一個實際解決方案。于是我們做了最符合邏輯的事：讓他們在我們餐廳里翻漢堡包。你要想象理查德，一個物理學(xué)博士，在那里嘗試給 1/4 磅的肉餅調(diào)味，而且應(yīng)該是 2 股番茄醬，1 股芥末，3 片腌黃瓜和 1 片洋蔥，然后繼續(xù)下一個，你動作一定要很快。你猜怎么著？這種節(jié)奏他根本維持不了一整天。他很受挫，而我非常敬佩他，因為他在嘗試著理解我們的生意。

03:44

Now, the EDF team, they thought reusableswere the holy grail for our business. Me and my team thought, reusables? Toomuch space, they'd make a mess, they would slow us down. But we didn't rejectthe idea. We went to the restaurant they chose outside DC, we went to the backroom. The dishwasher wasn't working properly, it's spitting out dirty dishes.The kitchen area is dirty and grimy. And compared to their experience atMcDonald's that's clean and organized, they could see the stark difference. Wealso sat in a restaurant at McDonald's, all day long, and watched the customerseating in. Their behavior. Ends up that many customers left with the food, theyleft with the beverage. And EDF came to their own conclusion that reusableswouldn't work for us.

之后 EDF 團(tuán)隊認(rèn)為可回收材料是我們成功的關(guān)鍵。而我和我的團(tuán)隊們并不看好可回收材料——太占地方了，一定會狼藉一片，它們會拖慢我們的速度。但我們沒有拒絕這個想法。我們?nèi)チ怂麄冞x的一家華盛頓郊外的餐廳，去了后廚。洗碗機(jī)壞了，臟碟子到處都是。廚房區(qū)域滿是灰塵和污漬。相比他們在麥當(dāng)勞干凈且有組織的體驗，他們能看到徹底的不同。我們也整天坐在麥當(dāng)勞里，觀察堂食顧客的行為。我們發(fā)現(xiàn)，許多客人都把餐食帶走，留下了飲料。于是 EDF 團(tuán)隊得出了他們自己的結(jié)論，即可回收材料不適合我們。

04:34

But they did have a lot of ideas that didwork. And we never would have thought of them by ourselves, without the EDFteam. My favorite was switching from the white carry-out bag to the brown bag.We had been using the white bag. It's virgin material, it's made from chlorinebleaching chemicals, and they said, use an unbleached bag, no chemicals. It'smade from recycled content, mostly recycled shipping corrugated boxes. Ends upthat the bag is stronger, the fiber is stronger, it didn't cost us more money.It was win-win.

但他們也有很多有用的想法。沒有 EDF 團(tuán)隊，我們自己肯定不會想到這些。我最喜歡的就是從白色外賣紙袋改成棕色紙袋。我們很長一段時間都在用白色紙袋。這是純凈原材料，由氯漂白化學(xué)物質(zhì)制成，之后他們說，“用未經(jīng)漂白的袋子，里面沒有有害化學(xué)物質(zhì)。”這是由可回收物品制成的，主要原材料是打包用的瓦楞紙箱。最終我們發(fā)現(xiàn)這樣的紙袋更加牢固，纖維更具韌性，也不會增加成本，是個雙贏的替代方案。

05:25

Another idea they had was that we couldreduce our napkin by one inch. And make it from recycled office paper. I'mthinking, one inch, no big deal. We did it, it reduced waste by three millionpounds a year. Sixteen thousand trees saved.

他們的另一個想法就是我們可以把紙巾縮小一英寸，使用可回收的辦公室用紙制作。我想，一英寸，不是啥大事兒。我們于是實行了這個想法，每年減少了 300 萬磅廢棄物，保護(hù)了 1.6 萬樹木。

05:44

(Applause)

（掌聲）

05:49

What was really cool is we changed thatbright white napkin, because the recycled content became gray and speckled. Andwe made that look, you know, in tune, in vogue with customers. So, I came toreally enjoy the time working with the EDF team. We had many dinners,late-night discussions, we went to a ball game together. We became friends.

真正酷炫的是我們替換了原本的亮白紙巾。因為可回收材料制成的紙巾顏色較灰且有斑點(diǎn)，我們也把紙巾的造型改得符合大眾期待和審美。因此，我開始真正地享受和 EDF 團(tuán)隊一起工作的時光。我們多次共進(jìn)晚餐，開展了不少深夜討論，也一起去打球。我們變成了朋友。

06:17

And that's when I learned a life lesson.That these NGO crusaders, they're really no different than me. They care, theyhave passion, we're just not different. So, we had a six-month partnership thatended up producing a 42-point waste reduction action plan. To reduce, reuse,recycle. We measured it during the decade of the '90s, and over 10 years wereduced 300 million pounds of waste. Now, if you're wondering about thatpolystyrene clamshell, yeah, we ditched it. And luckily, I still had a job.

也就在這時，我學(xué)會了一個人生教訓(xùn)。那些非政府組織中的戰(zhàn)士們，和我真的沒什么不一樣。他們有責(zé)任感，他們擁有熱情，我們沒什么不同。我們六個月的合作共同達(dá)成了了一份包含 42 項內(nèi)容的減廢行動計劃。減少廢物、重新利用、循環(huán)使用。從 90 年代開始，我們測量了一下，10 年多的時間，我們總共減少了3 億磅廢物。現(xiàn)在如果你在回想那個泡沫塑料翻蓋餐盒，沒錯，我們已經(jīng)拋棄它了。幸運(yùn)的是，我的工作沒丟。

06:55

And this partnership was so successful thatwe went on to recycle the idea to work with critics. Collaborate with them onsolutions that could work for society and for business. But could this idea ofcollaborating work with the most contrarian folks? And on issues that are, youknow, not within our direct control. Like animal rights.

而且這個合作關(guān)系是如此成功，我們決定繼續(xù)貫徹一個觀點(diǎn)：與批判者協(xié)作。與他們合作共尋解決方案，以同時滿足社會和企業(yè)需求。但這一個協(xié)作的想法對那些最逆勢的人行得通嗎？尤其是那些不在我們直接控制范圍內(nèi)的問題。例如動物權(quán)利。

07:24

Now, animal rights, obviously they don'twant animals used for meat. McDonald's, probably the biggest purchaser of meatin the food service industry. So there's a natural conflict there. But Ithought it would be best to go visit and learn from the most vociferous andvigilant critics we had at that time, which were Henry Spira, head of AnimalRights International, and Peter Singer, who wrote the book "AnimalLiberation," which is considered the modern treatise about animal rights.You know, I read Peter's book to prepare, I tried to get into his mindset, andI have to admit, it was tough, I'm not becoming a vegan, my company wasn'tgoing that way. But I really thought we could learn a lot.

關(guān)于動物權(quán)利，顯然他們不想宰割動物以作肉用。麥當(dāng)勞，可能是食品服務(wù)業(yè)中最大的肉類采購商。所以這里存在一個天然的矛盾。但我想如果能去拜訪那些活躍且警覺的批判家們，并向他們學(xué)習(xí)，那就再好不過了。例如亨利·史匹拉，國際動物權(quán)利組織的負(fù)責(zé)人，還有彼得·辛格，他寫了《動物解放》一書，被認(rèn)為是關(guān)于動物權(quán)利的當(dāng)代專著。為了做功課，我讀了彼得的書，盡可能去理解他的思維模式，我必須承認(rèn)，這很難，我也沒有轉(zhuǎn)變?yōu)榧兯厥痴撸夜疽矝]往那個方向發(fā)展。但是我確實認(rèn)為從中可以學(xué)到很多。

08:08

And so I set up a breakfast meeting in NewYork City. And I remember sitting down, getting ready, and I decided I'm not goingto order my favorite, which is you know, bacon and sausage and eggs.

因此我在紐約安排了一個早餐會議。我記得當(dāng)時坐了下來，做好準(zhǔn)備，決定不點(diǎn)自己最愛的食物，就那種，培根、香腸和雞蛋。

08:18

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

08:20

And I'm just going to stick to thepastries. But I have to admit, I was waiting for the adversarial discussion tohappen. And it never did. Henry and Peter were just gracious, they were caring,they were smart, they asked good questions. I told them about how working onanimal welfare is very tough for McDonald's because our direct suppliers, they onlymake meat patties. The animals are three or four steps removed from ourinfluence. And they were very empathetic. And while we were so directly opposedin terms of the missions of our organizations, I felt that I had learned a lot.

我打算盯著面包糕點(diǎn)吃。但是我得承認(rèn)，我原本等待著一次針鋒相對的討論，但出乎我意料的是，亨利和彼得表現(xiàn)得很親切，他們體貼、聰慧，善于提問。我和他們說到，對麥當(dāng)勞來說，在動物福利上下功夫很難。因為我們直接的供應(yīng)商只生產(chǎn)肉餅。與動物相關(guān)的，在我們供應(yīng)鏈上游的 3-4 個環(huán)節(jié)。之后他們非常感同身受。盡管考慮到各自的組織使命，我們本應(yīng)針鋒相對，但我覺得我學(xué)到了很多。

08:58

And best of all, they gave me a terrificrecommendation. And that is, they said, "You should work with Dr. TempleGrandin." Now, I didn't know her at the time. But I tell you, she's themost renowned expert, then and now, on animal behavior. And she knows howanimals move and how they should react in facilities. So I end up meeting her, andshe's the very best type of critic, in a sense that she just loves the animals,wants to protect them, but she also understands the reality of the meatbusiness. And I'll always remember, I had never been to a slaughterhouse in mylife, and so I go with her for my first trip. I didn't know what to expect. Andwe find that the animal handlers have electric prods in their hands, and arebasically zapping almost every animal in the facility. We're both appalled,she's jumping up and down, you'd have to know her, she's saying, "Thiscan't be, this isn't right, we could use flags, we could use plastic bags, wecould redesign the corrals for natural behavior."

最好的是，他們給了我一個絕妙的建議。他們說，“你應(yīng)該和天寶·葛蘭汀博士合作。”當(dāng)時我并不知道她。但我要告訴你們，她一直以來，在動物行為學(xué)方面是最有聲譽(yù)的專家。她知道動物的運(yùn)動方式以及在設(shè)施中應(yīng)有的反應(yīng)。所以我后來和她見了面，發(fā)現(xiàn)她是最好的那種批判家，從某種意義上說她只是愛動物，想要保護(hù)它們，但是她也理解肉類行業(yè)的現(xiàn)實。而且我也永遠(yuǎn)都會記得，我第一次和她一起去屠宰場，而我此生還尚未見過屠宰場。我無法想象自己將會看到什么。我們發(fā)現(xiàn)畜管員手中拿著電棒，擊殺著眼前近乎每一個動物。我倆都感到非常震驚，她急得直跳腳，你們一定要認(rèn)識一下她，她說：“這不行，不能這么做。我們可以使用旗子，我們可以利用塑料袋，也可以根據(jù)動物的自然行為重新設(shè)計圍欄?！?/p>

10:04

Well I set up Temple with our suppliers toset up standards and guidelines. And ways to measure her ideas of implementinganimal welfare. We did this for the next two to five years. And it all gotintegrated, it all got enforced. By the way, two of McDonald's suppliers lostbusiness because they didn't meet our standards. And best of all, all thesestandards ended up scaling to the entire industry. And no more zapping of thoseanimals.

總之，我把天寶和我們的供應(yīng)商們聚集到一起，來制定標(biāo)準(zhǔn)和指南，以及能夠衡量她實行動物福利想法的方法。我們在接下來的的 2-5 年一直在做這件事。所有的努力都得以被整合、被實行。順便提一句，有兩個麥當(dāng)勞的供應(yīng)商因為無法滿足我們的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，丟了生意。功夫不負(fù)有心人，所有這些標(biāo)準(zhǔn)最終變成了整個行業(yè)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。用電棒擊殺那些動物的行為早已不復(fù)存在。

10:33

Now, what about issues that we're blamedfor elsewhere? Like deforestation. You know, on that issue, I always thought,policy makers and government, that's their role. Never thought it would end upin my lap. But I remember in early April 2006, I opened up my Blackberry, andI'm reading about Greenpeace campaigners showing up in the UK by the dozens,dressed as chickens, having breakfast at McDonald's and chaining themselves tothe chairs and tables. So they got a lot of attention, including mine. And Iwas wondering if the report that they had just released, it was called"Eating Up the Amazon." And by the way, soy is a key ingredient forchicken feed, and that's the connection to McDonald's.

那我們被問責(zé)的其他問題呢？例如森林砍伐。在這個問題上，我一直想，這是政策制定者和政府的事兒。我從來沒想過會成我的顧慮。但我記得在 2006 年 4 月初，我打開自己的黑莓手機(jī)，讀到綠色和平組織（Greenpeace）的幾十個活動者出現(xiàn)在英國，裝扮成雞，在麥當(dāng)勞享用早餐，并把他們自己拴在桌椅上。他們獲得了很多關(guān)注，包括我的。我在想是不是他們的報告剛被發(fā)行，報告名為《耗空亞馬遜》（‘Eating Up the Amazon’）。順便介紹一下，大豆是雞飼料的關(guān)鍵材料，這就是它和麥當(dāng)勞的聯(lián)系。

11:23

So I called my trusted friends at the WorldWildlife Fund, I called Conservation International, and I soon learned that theGreenpeace report was accurate. So I gathered internal support, and I'll alwaysremember, next day, after that campaign, I called them up, and I said, "Weagree with you." And I said, "How about working together?" Sothree days later, miraculously, four people from McDonald's, four people fromGreenpeace, we're meeting in the London Heathrow airport. And I have to say,the first hour was shaky, it wasn't a whole lot of trust in the room. But itseemed like everything came together, because each of us wanted to save theAmazon. And during our discussions, you couldn't really tell, I don't think,who was from Greenpeace and who was from McDonald's.

于是我打電話給我在世界野生動物基金（WWF）的一些可靠的朋友，打電話給保護(hù)國際（CI），很快我就意識到，綠色和平組織的報告數(shù)據(jù)是準(zhǔn)確的。所以我聚集起公司內(nèi)部支持，我永遠(yuǎn)都會記得，在那個運(yùn)動的第二天，我打電話給他們，并且說，“我們同意你們的觀點(diǎn)。”我又說，“要不我們合作？”于是三天后，4 個麥當(dāng)勞的人和 4 個綠色和平的人奇跡般地在倫敦希思羅機(jī)場進(jìn)行了會面。我必須說，第一個小時的氣氛不太穩(wěn)定，房間里沒幾分信任存在。但似乎情況正在好轉(zhuǎn)，因為我們每一個人都想挽救亞馬遜。在我們的討論中，你無法完全區(qū)分誰來自綠色和平，誰來自麥當(dāng)勞，我也看不出。

12:18

So one of the best things we did is wetraveled with them for nine days on a trip through the Amazon, on theGreenpeace airplane, on the Greenpeace boat. And I'll always remember, imaginetraveling hundreds of miles west of Manaus, the capital city of the Amazon. Andit's so pristine beauty, there's no man-made structures, there's no roads, notone wire, not one house. You would travel east of Manaus and you would see theblatant rainforest destruction. So this very unlikely collaboration producedoutstanding results. By working together, we recruited over a dozen otherretailers and suppliers for the same cause. And by the way, within threemonths, a moratorium on these clear-cutting practices was announced by theindustry. And Greenpeace themselves declared it as a spectacular drop indeforestation and it's been in effect ever since.

所以我們做的最棒的一件事，就是跟他們一起參與了亞馬遜九日游——乘坐綠色和平的飛機(jī)，搭乘綠色和平的船。我永遠(yuǎn)會記得，想象在亞馬遜首都馬瑙斯以西數(shù)十里處穿梭時看到的那種原始的美麗。沒有人造建筑，沒有馬路，沒有一根電線，沒有一座房子。而當(dāng)你前往馬瑙斯以東，就會看到明目張膽的雨林破壞。所以這個非常不可能的合作產(chǎn)出了優(yōu)秀成果。通過合作，出于同樣的原因，我們又動員了其他幾十個零售商和供應(yīng)商。在三個月內(nèi)，業(yè)界就頒布了一條禁止濫伐條例。綠色和平組織自己宣稱這一條例使得森林砍伐驟減，并且始終能有效遏制森林砍伐。

13:21

Now, you think these types ofcollaborations that I've described would be commonplace today. But they're not.When organizations are battered, the common response is to deny and push back,put out some sort of lame statement and no progress is made at all. I say thealternative is really powerful. I mean, it's not going to fix every problem,and there's more to do for sure, but this idea of working with critics andtrying to do more good for society that actually is good for business, believeme, it's possible. But it starts with the idea that you need to assume the bestintentions of your critics. Just like you have the best intentions. And thensecondly, you need to look past a lot of these tactics. I admit, I did not likea lot of the tactics used on my company. But instead, focus on what the truthis, what's the right thing to do, what's the science, what's the facts. Andlastly, you know, I would say, give the critics the keys. Show them the backroom. Bring them there, don't hide the details, because if you want allies andsupport, you need to be open and transparent.

現(xiàn)在，你會覺得我剛才講的那些合作類型在今天非常普遍。但其實不是。當(dāng)組織受到抨擊時，普遍的回應(yīng)是否認(rèn)、反抗、發(fā)表一些毫無說服力的聲明, 事情毫無改觀。我想說這個替代方法非常強(qiáng)大。我不是說要去解決每一個問題，因為必然總有更多問題需要解決，但是與批判者合作并且嘗試做更多好事來回饋社會的想法對公司確實也是有利的。相信我，這是可能的。但這始于一個假設(shè)：假設(shè)那些批判者是出于一個良好的初衷。就像你有一個很好的初衷。之后，你需要大量回顧這些策略。我承認(rèn)，很多在我公司實行的策略我不怎么喜歡。但相反，要關(guān)注什么是真相，什么是應(yīng)該做的正確的事？什么是科學(xué)？什么是事實？最后，我會說，把鑰匙交給批判者們，讓他們?nèi)ズ笈_看看。把他們帶過去，不要隱藏細(xì)節(jié)，因為如果你想要同盟與支持，你需要坦誠和透明。

14:38

Now, whether you're a corporate suit,whether you're a tree-hugger, I say the next time you're criticized, reach out,listen, learn. You'll become better, your organization will become better, andyou might make some good friends along the way.

不論你是企業(yè)門面，還是環(huán)保極端人士，下次你被批判的時候，試著聯(lián)系，傾聽，學(xué)習(xí)。你會變得更好，你的組織會變得更好，沿途還可能交些好友。

14:55

Thank you.

謝謝。

14:57

(Applause)

（掌聲）