演講MP3+雙語(yǔ)文稿:Facebook 在英國(guó)脫歐中的角色——以及對(duì)民主的威脅

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【演講者】Carole Cadwalladr

【演講主題】Facebook 在英國(guó)脫歐中的角色——以及對(duì)民主的威脅

【中英文字幕】獲取完整版字幕

翻譯者：功偉 邢 校對(duì)者：Jin Ge

So, on the day after the Brexitvote,in June 2016,when Britain woke up to the shockofdiscovering that we're leaving the European Union,my editor at the"Observer" newspaper in the UKasked me to go back to South Wales,where I grew up, and to write a report.And so I went to a town calledEbbw Vale.

2016年6月, 英國(guó)脫歐投票結(jié)束后的那天，當(dāng)英國(guó)醒來后，震驚地發(fā)現(xiàn)我們將要離開歐盟，我在英國(guó)《觀察者》報(bào)紙的編輯讓我回到威爾士南部去寫一份報(bào)告，那是我長(zhǎng)大的地方。于是我去了一個(gè)叫埃布谷的小鎮(zhèn)。

00:35

Here it is.It's in the South WalesValleys, which is this quite special place.So it's had this very, sort ofrich, working-class culture,and it's famous for its Welsh male voicechoirs and rugby and its coal.But when I was a teenager, the coal minesand the steelworks closed,and the entire area was devastated.And Iwent there because it had one of the highest "Leave" votes in thecountry.Sixty-two percent of the people here voted to leave the EuropeanUnion.And I wanted to know why.

就在這兒。它位于南威爾士山谷， 這是一個(gè)非常特別的地方。這里有著濃厚的工人階級(jí)文化，以威爾士男聲合唱團(tuán)、橄欖球和煤炭而聞名。但當(dāng)我十幾歲的時(shí)候， 煤礦和鋼鐵廠都倒閉了，整個(gè)地區(qū)都衰落了。我去那里是因?yàn)槟抢锍霈F(xiàn)了 全國(guó)最高的“脫歐”票比例。這里62%的人投票決定離開歐盟。我想知道為什么。

01:09

When I got there, I was just a bit takenaback,because the last time I went to Ebbw Vale,it looked likethis.And now, it looks like this.This is a new 33-million-poundcollege of further educationthat was mostly funded by the EuropeanUnion.And this is the new sports centerthat's at the middle of350-million-pound regeneration projectthat's being funded by the EuropeanUnion.And this is the new 77-million-pound road-improvementscheme,and there's a new train line, a new railway station,andthey're all being funded by the European Union.And it's not as if any ofthis is a secret,because there's big signs like this everywhere.

當(dāng)我到達(dá)那里的時(shí)候， 我只是有點(diǎn)吃驚，因?yàn)樯洗挝胰グ２脊鹊臅r(shí)候，它看起來是這樣的?，F(xiàn)在，它看起來像這樣。這是一所耗資3300萬英鎊的 繼續(xù)教育大學(xué)，主要由歐盟資助。這是一個(gè)新的體育中心，這是由歐盟資助的3.5億英鎊的重建項(xiàng)目的中心。這是一個(gè)新的7700萬英鎊的 道路改善計(jì)劃，還有一條新的鐵路線， 一個(gè)新的火車站，這些都是由歐盟資助的。這并不是什么秘密，因?yàn)榈教幎加羞@樣的大標(biāo)志。

01:53

[EU Funds: Investing in Wales]

01:55

(Laughter)

01:57

I had this sort of weird sense ofunreality,walking around the town.And it came to a headwhen Imet this young man in front of the sports center.And he told me that hehad voted to leave,because the European Union had done nothing forhim.He was fed up with it.And all around town, people told me thesame thing.They said that they wanted to take back control,whichwas one of the slogans in the campaign.And they told me that they weremost fed upwith the immigrants and with the refugees.They'd hadenough.

在小鎮(zhèn)上散步的時(shí)候，我時(shí)不時(shí)有一種 奇怪的不真實(shí)的感覺。當(dāng)我走到體育中心 遇到這個(gè)年輕人的時(shí)候，我的想法達(dá)到了頂點(diǎn)。他告訴我，他投票決定離開歐盟，因?yàn)闅W盟沒有為他做任何事情。他受夠了。鎮(zhèn)上的人都跟我說了同樣的話。他們說他們想奪回控制權(quán)，這是競(jìng)選口號(hào)之一。他們告訴我，他們受夠了移民和難民。移民已經(jīng)太多了。

02:36

Which was odd.Because walking around,I didn't meet any immigrants or refugees.I met one Polish woman who toldmeshe was practically the only foreigner in town.And when I checkedthe figures,I discovered that Ebbw Vale actually hasone of thelowest rates of immigration in the country.And so I was just a bitbaffled,because I couldn't really understandwhere people weregetting their information from.Because it was the right-wing tabloidnewspaperswhich printed all these stories about immigration.Andthis is a very much left-wing Labour stronghold.

這太奇怪了。因?yàn)樽吡诉@么久， 我沒有遇到一個(gè)移民或難民。我遇到一位波蘭婦女，她告訴我她幾乎是鎮(zhèn)上唯一的外國(guó)人。當(dāng)我查看這些數(shù)據(jù)時(shí)，我發(fā)現(xiàn)埃布谷實(shí)際上是英國(guó)移民率最低的地區(qū)之一。所以我有點(diǎn)困惑，因?yàn)槲也荒苷嬲斫馊藗儚哪睦锏玫搅诵畔ⅰＲ驗(yàn)檎怯乙硇?bào)刊登了所有關(guān)于移民的報(bào)道。但這里一個(gè)非常左翼的工黨大本營(yíng)。

03:08

But then after the article came out, thiswoman got in touch with me.And she was from Ebbw Vale,and she toldme about all this stuff that she'd seen on Facebook.I was like,"What stuff?"And she said it was all this quite scary stuffabout immigration,and especially about Turkey.So I tried to findit.But there was nothing there.Because there's no archive of adsthat people had seenor what had been pushed into their newsfeeds.No trace of anything, gone completely dark.And thisreferendum that will have this profound effect forever on Britain --it'salready had a profound effect:the Japanese car manufacturers that came toWales and the north eastto replace the mining jobs --they arealready going because of Brexit.

但文章發(fā)表后， 有個(gè)女人和我取得了聯(lián)系。她來自埃布谷，她把在Facebook上看到的東西 全部告訴了我。我說，“什么東西?”她說移民問題非?？膳拢绕涫峭炼?。所以我試著找到她所說的消息。但是什么也沒有。因?yàn)闆]有相關(guān)的檔案， 來保存人們看過的廣告或新聞媒體流推送的內(nèi)容 也沒有被保存。沒有任何痕跡，完全沒有線索。這次公投將對(duì)英國(guó)產(chǎn)生深遠(yuǎn)的影響——它已經(jīng)產(chǎn)生了深遠(yuǎn)的影響：之前威爾士和東北部的 日本汽車制造商曾取代礦業(yè)工作——現(xiàn)在他們已經(jīng)因?yàn)橛?guó)脫歐而離開了。

03:54

And this entire referendum took place indarkness,because it took place on Facebook.And what happens onFacebook stays on Facebook,because only you see your news feed, and thenit vanishes,so it's impossible to research anything.So we have noidea who saw what adsor what impact they had,or what data was usedto target these people.Or even who placed the ads, or how much money wasspent,or even what nationality they were.

整個(gè)公投發(fā)生在黑暗中，因?yàn)樗l(fā)生在Facebook上。Facebook上發(fā)生的事情 只會(huì)留在Facebook圈子里，因?yàn)橹挥心憧吹侥愕男侣勍扑停?然后它就消失了，所以無法研究任何東西。所以我們不知道誰(shuí)看到了什么廣告，這些廣告又產(chǎn)生了什么影響，或者這些推送是基于哪些數(shù)據(jù)的。甚至是誰(shuí)投放了廣告，花了多少錢，甚至這些人的國(guó)籍是什么。

04:28

But Facebook does.Facebook has theseanswers,and it's refused to give them to us.Our parliament hasasked Mark Zuckerberg multiple times to come to Britainand to give usthese answers.And every single time, he's refused.And you have towonder why.Because what I and other journalists have uncoveredisthat multiple crimes took place during the referendum.And they took placeon Facebook.

但是Facebook知曉這些秘密。Facebook有這些問題的答案，但它拒絕告訴我們。我們的議會(huì)已經(jīng)多次要求 馬克·扎克伯格來英國(guó)給我們解釋這些疑問。每一次，他都拒絕了。你一定想知道他為什么不來。因?yàn)槲液推渌浾甙l(fā)現(xiàn)，公投期間發(fā)生了多起犯罪。而且這些犯罪 就發(fā)生在Facebook上。

05:00

It's because in Britain, we limit theamount of moneythat you can spend in an election.And it's becausein the 19th century,people would walk around with literally wheelbarrowsof cashand just buy voters.So we passed these strict laws to stopthat from happening.But those laws don't work anymore.Thisreferendum took place almost entirely online.And you can spend any amountof money on Facebook or on Google or on YouTube adsand nobody will know,because they're black boxes.And this is what happened.

因?yàn)樵谟?guó)，我們限制你在選舉中可以花的錢。這是因?yàn)樵?9世紀(jì)，人們真的會(huì)帶著一手推車的現(xiàn)金四處走動(dòng)，然后收買選民。所以我們通過了這些嚴(yán)格的法律來阻止這種情況的發(fā)生。但是那些法律現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)不管用了。這次公投幾乎完全是在網(wǎng)上進(jìn)行的。你可以在Facebook、谷歌或 YouTube上花很多錢，沒人會(huì)知道，因?yàn)樗鼈兘?jīng)過”黑盒操作“， 沒人知道其內(nèi)部運(yùn)作。事情就是這樣。

05:34

We've actually got no idea of the fullextent of it.But we do know that in the last days before the Brexitvote,the official "Vote Leave" campaignlaundered nearlythree quarters of a million poundsthrough another campaignentitythat our electoral commission has ruled was illegal,and it'sreferred it to the police.

實(shí)際上，我們并不知道它的全部范圍。但我們知道的是， 在英國(guó)脫歐公投前的最后幾天，官方的“脫歐公投”活動(dòng)通過另一個(gè)競(jìng)選實(shí)體洗錢近75萬英鎊，我們的選舉委員會(huì)裁定 該實(shí)體是非法的，并將其提交給了警方。

05:55

And with this illegal cash,"VoteLeave" unleashed a fire hose of disinformation.Ads like this.

用這些非法資金，“脫歐公投”引發(fā)了一連串虛假信息。就像這樣的廣告。

06:06

[Turkey's 76m people joining the EU]

06:08

This is a lie, it's a totallie.Turkey is not joining the European Union.There's not even anydiscussions of it joining the European Union.And most of us, we never sawthese ads,because we were not the target of them."VoteLeave" identified a tiny sliver of peoplewho it identified aspersuadable, and they saw them.And the only reason we are seeing thesenowis because parliament forced Facebook to hand them over.

這是個(gè)謊言，是個(gè)徹徹底底的謊言。土耳其不會(huì)加入歐盟。甚至沒有任何關(guān)于它加入歐盟的討論。而我們大多數(shù)人，我們從來沒有見過這些廣告，因?yàn)槲覀儾皇撬麄兊哪繕?biāo)。“脫歐公投”尋找了一小部分 被認(rèn)為會(huì)動(dòng)搖的人，他們看到了這些廣告。我們現(xiàn)在看到這些的唯一原因是因?yàn)樽h會(huì)強(qiáng)迫Facebook 交出了它們。

06:37

And maybe you think,"Well, itwas just a bit of overspending.It's a few lies."But this wasthe biggest electoral fraud in Britain for 100 years.In aonce-in-a-generation votethat hinged upon just one percent of theelectorate.And it was just one of the crimes that took place in thereferendum.

也許你會(huì)想，“嗯，只是有點(diǎn)不太像話。只是幾個(gè)謊言而已?！钡@是英國(guó)100年來 最大的選舉舞弊。這是一代人只可能參與一次，而只有1%的選民參與的投票。這只是公投中發(fā)生的罪行之一。

07:03

There was another group,which washeaded by this man, Nigel Farage,the one to the right of Trump.Andhis group, "Leave.EU" -- it also broke the law.It broke Britishelectoral laws and British data laws,and it's also being referred to thepolice.And this man, Arron Banks, he funded this campaign.And in acompletely separate case,he's being referred to our National CrimeAgency,our equivalent of the FBI,because our electoralcommissionhas concluded they don't know where his money came from.Orif it was even British.And I'm not even going to go into the lies thatArron Banks has toldabout his covert relationship with the Russiangovernment.Or the weird timing of Nigel Farage's meetings with JulianAssangeand with Trump's buddy, Roger Stone, now indicted,immediatelybefore two massive WikiLeaks dumps,both of which happened to benefitDonald Trump.But I will tell you that Brexit and Trump were intimatelyentwined.This man told me that Brexit was the petri dish forTrump.And we know it's the same people, the same companies,the samedata, the same techniques,the same use of hate and fear.

還有另一個(gè)組織，由這個(gè)人領(lǐng)導(dǎo)，奈杰爾·法拉奇，特朗普右邊的那個(gè)。和他的團(tuán)隊(duì)，“離開歐盟” ——它也違反了法律。它違反了英國(guó)選舉法和數(shù)據(jù)法，也被提交給了警方。這個(gè)人，阿倫·班克斯， 資助了這次競(jìng)選。在另一個(gè)不相關(guān)的案件中，他被移交給我們的國(guó)家犯罪局，相當(dāng)于美國(guó)的聯(lián)邦調(diào)查局，因?yàn)槲覀兊倪x舉委員會(huì)得出結(jié)論，他們不知道他的錢從哪里來。究竟是不是來自英國(guó)的資金。我甚至不用去細(xì)說 阿倫·班克斯所說的關(guān)于他與俄羅斯政府秘密關(guān)系的謊言。或者是奈杰爾·法拉奇(脫歐黨黨魁) 與朱利安·阿桑奇(維基解密主角)以及特朗普的好友羅杰·斯通， 他如今正被起訴，會(huì)面的奇怪時(shí)間，就在維基解密公布兩份大規(guī)模文件之前，這兩份文件都恰好有利于唐納德·特朗普。但我要告訴你的是， 英國(guó)脫歐和特朗普密不可分。這個(gè)人告訴我， 英國(guó)退歐是特朗普的培養(yǎng)皿。我們知道是同樣的人，同樣的公司，同樣的數(shù)據(jù)，同樣的技術(shù)，同樣利用了仇恨和恐懼。

08:24

This is what they were posting onFacebook.And I don't even want to call this a lie,

這是他們?cè)贔acebook上發(fā)布的。我甚至不想稱之為謊言，

08:30

[Immigration without assimilation equalsinvasion]

【沒有經(jīng)歷同化的移民等于入侵】

08:32

because it feels more like a hate crime tome.

因?yàn)閷?duì)我來說，這更像是一種仇恨犯罪

08:38

I don't have to tell youthat hate andfear are being sown online all across the world.Not just in Britain andAmerica, but in France and in Hungaryand Brazil and Myanmar and NewZealand.And we know there is this dark undertow which is connecting usall globally.And it is flowing via the technology platforms.But weonly see a tiny amount of what's going on on the surface.

我不必告訴你，仇恨和恐懼 正在世界各地的網(wǎng)絡(luò)上散播。不僅在英國(guó)和美國(guó)， 而且在法國(guó)、匈牙利、巴西、緬甸和新西蘭。我們覺察到有一股黑色的暗流 將我們連接在一起。它通過技術(shù)平臺(tái)流動(dòng)。但我們只能看到表面上的一小部分。

09:07

And I only found out anything about thisdark underbellybecause I started looking into Trump's relationship toFarage,into a company called Cambridge Analytica.And I spent monthstracking down an ex-employee, Christopher Wiley.And he told me how thiscompany, that worked for both Trump and Brexit,had profiled peoplepoliticallyin order to understand their individual fears,to bettertarget them with Facebook ads.And it did this by illicitly harvesting theprofilesof 87 million people from Facebook.It took an entire year'swork to get Christopher on the record.And I had to turn myself from afeature writerinto an investigative reporter to do it.And he wasextraordinarily brave,because the company is owned by RobertMercer,the billionaire who bankrolled Trump,and he threatened tosue us multiple times,to stop us from publishing.

我也只發(fā)現(xiàn)了 關(guān)于這個(gè)黑暗面的冰山一角，因?yàn)槲议_始調(diào)查 特朗普和法拉奇的關(guān)系，我發(fā)現(xiàn)了一家叫劍橋分析的公司。我花了好幾個(gè)月的時(shí)間才找到前雇員克里斯托弗·威利。他向我解釋， 這家為特朗普和英國(guó)脫歐運(yùn)作的公司是如何從政治上剖析人們的，以便理解他們個(gè)人的恐懼，從而更好地用 Facebook廣告瞄準(zhǔn)他們。它通過非法獲取Facebook上8700萬人的用戶資料來做到這一點(diǎn)。我花了整整一年才把克里斯托弗記錄在案。我不得不把自己從特寫作家變成調(diào)查記者。他非常勇敢，因?yàn)檫@家公司的所有者 是為特朗普提供資金的億萬富翁羅伯特·默瑟，他多次威脅要起訴我們，阻止我們出版。

10:13

But we finally got there, and we were oneday ahead of publication.We got another legal threat.Not fromCambridge Analytica this time,but from Facebook.It told us that ifwe publish, they would sue us.We did it anyway.

但我們最終還是做到了， 離出版還有一天。我們受到了另一個(gè)法律威脅。這次不是來自劍橋分析公司，而是來自Facebook。它告訴我們，如果我們出版， 他們會(huì)起訴我們。我們?nèi)匀怀霭媪恕?/p>

10:30

(Applause)

10:40

Facebook, you were on the wrong side ofhistory in that.And you were on the wrong side of history in this--in refusing to give us the answers that we need.And that is why Iam here.To address you directly, the gods of Silicon Valley.

Facebook， 你們選擇站在歷史錯(cuò)誤的一邊。你們站在歷史錯(cuò)誤的一邊， 因?yàn)槟銈兙芙^給出我們需要的真相。這就是我來這里的原因。直接對(duì)你們說，硅谷的眾神們。

10:59

(Applause)

11:03

Mark Zuckerberg ...

馬克·扎克伯格……

11:05

(Applause)

11:06

and Sheryl Sandberg and Larry Page andSergey Brin and Jack Dorsey,and your employees and your investors,too.Because 100 years ago,the biggest danger in the South Walescoal mines was gas.Silent and deadly and invisible.It's why theysent the canaries down first to check the air.And in this massive,global, online experiment that we are all living through,we in Britainare the canary.We are what happens to a western democracywhen ahundred years of electoral laws are disrupted by technology.

謝麗爾·桑德伯格（臉書CEO）、拉里·佩奇（谷歌母公司CEO）、謝爾蓋·布林（谷歌聯(lián)合創(chuàng)始人）、 杰克·多爾西（推特創(chuàng)始人CEO），還有你們的員工和投資者。因?yàn)?00年前，南威爾士煤礦最大的危險(xiǎn)是煤氣。沉默，致命，隱形。這就是為什么他們先派金絲雀 去檢查空氣。在這個(gè)大規(guī)模的、全球性的、 在線的實(shí)驗(yàn)中，我們都置身其中，我們英國(guó)人就是金絲雀。當(dāng)一百年來的選舉法被科技打亂時(shí)，我們就是活生生的 所謂西方民主國(guó)家的下場(chǎng)。

11:45

Our democracy is broken, our laws don'twork anymore,and it's not me saying this,it's our parliamentpublished a report saying this.This technology that you have invented hasbeen amazing.But now, it's a crime scene.And you have theevidence.And it is not enough to say that you will do better in thefuture.Because to have any hope of stopping this from happeningagain,we have to know the truth.

我們的民主被破壞了， 我們的法律不再有效，這不是我說的，而是我們的議會(huì)發(fā)表了一份報(bào)告。你們發(fā)明的這項(xiàng)技術(shù)太神奇了。但現(xiàn)在，這里是犯罪現(xiàn)場(chǎng)。你有證據(jù)。但是你們僅僅說 將來會(huì)做得更好是不夠的。因?yàn)橐胱柚惯@種事情再次發(fā)生，我們必須知道真相。

12:21

And maybe you think, "Well, it wasjust a few ads.And people are smarter than that, right?"Towhich I would say, "Good luck with that."Because what theBrexit vote demonstratesis that liberal democracy is broken.And youbroke it.This is not democracy --spreading lies in darkness, paidfor with illegal cash,from God knows where.It'ssubversion,and you are accessories to it.

也許你會(huì)想， “沒事兒，這只是幾個(gè)廣告而已。人們比這更聰明，不會(huì)中招對(duì)吧?”對(duì)此我要說：“祝你好運(yùn)?！币?yàn)槊摎W公投表明，自由民主已經(jīng)破碎。你們把它弄壞了。這不是民主——在黑暗之中散布謊言， 用非法的現(xiàn)金支付，天知道這些現(xiàn)金從哪里來。這是對(duì)國(guó)家的 顛覆，而你們都是它的陪葬品。

13:00

(Applause)

13:09

Our parliament has been the first in theworldto try to hold you to account,and it's failed.You areliterally beyond the reach of British law -- not just British laws,thisis nine parliaments, nine countries are represented here,who MarkZuckerberg refused to come and give evidence to.

我們的議會(huì)是世界上第一個(gè) 試圖讓你們承擔(dān)責(zé)任的議會(huì)， 但它失敗了。 你們真的超出了英國(guó)法律的范圍 ——不僅僅是英國(guó)法律， 這是9個(gè)議會(huì)，9個(gè)國(guó)家的代表，馬克·扎克伯格卻拒絕來作證。

13:30

And what you don't seem to understand isthat this is bigger than you.And it's bigger than any of us.And itis not about left or right or "Leave" or "Remain" or Trumpor not.It's about whether it's actually possibleto have a free andfair election ever again.Because as it stands, I don't think it is.

你似乎不明白這種精準(zhǔn)投放的廣告 遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)比你強(qiáng)大。它比我們?nèi)魏稳硕紡?qiáng)大。這與左派、右派、“脫歐”、 “留歐”、特朗普都無關(guān)。這關(guān)系到是否有可能再次舉行一次自由公正的選舉。因?yàn)榫湍壳皝砜?，我不抱任何希望?/p>

13:52

And so my question to you is, is this whatyou want?Is this how you want history to remember you:as thehandmaidens to authoritarianismthat is on the rise all across theworld?Because you set out to connect people.And you are refusing toacknowledgethat the same technology is now driving us apart.

所以我想問你們， 這就是你們想要的嗎?你希望歷史就這樣記住你嗎：你是世界各地正在興起的威權(quán)主義的奴仆?因?yàn)槟愕某踔允菍⑷藗兟?lián)系起來。但如今你們拒絕承認(rèn)同樣的技術(shù)正在把我們分開。

14:21

And my question to everybody elseis,is this what we want:to let them get away with it,and tosit back and play with our phones, as this darkness falls?

我對(duì)其他人的問題是，這就是我們想要的嗎：讓他們逍遙法外，在黑暗降臨的時(shí)候，坐下來玩手機(jī)?

The history of the South Wales Valleys isof a fight for rights.And this is not a drill -- it's a point ofinflection.Democracy is not guaranteed, and it is notinevitable,and we have to fight and we have to winand we cannot letthese tech companies have this unchecked power.It's up to us -- you, meand all of us.We are the ones who have to take back control.

南威爾士山谷的歷史 是一場(chǎng)爭(zhēng)取權(quán)利的斗爭(zhēng)。這不是演習(xí)，這是一個(gè)轉(zhuǎn)折點(diǎn)。民主并非是應(yīng)許的， 也不是必然的。我們必須戰(zhàn)斗，我們必須勝利，我們不能讓這些科技公司 擁有這種不受約束的權(quán)力。這取決于我們—— 你，我和我們所有人。我們必須奪回控制權(quán)。

15:04

(Applause)

15:07

(Cheers)

15:10

(Applause)